Welcome, Kate. Thank you so much for joining me today and coming on the show. So, today we're going to talk about boundaries. And this is something that we've discussed before on an Instagram Live we shared. And I think it's something worth digging even deeper into in the podcast. I know it's a topic that you're also very passionate about and an expert on, so let's dive in. So welcome.
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
So I think first of all, I think the first thing we should probably do is define what are boundaries. What does that mean? It's a big buzzword. A lot of people are talking about boundaries, but what does that actually mean? What are boundaries?
I think it can mean different things for different people, but generally it's the things that we establish to keep ourselves safe so that we can respect other people and keep them safe, and ways to protect what's important to us emotionally, physically, mentally, spiritually. Yeah. And it can relate to physical health, emotional health, family, work. It touches every aspect of our lives.
Yes. Yeah. And I like that you said, "To keep us safe." I think that's a really important component, is that safety and to keep others safe.
So what are some ways that people might recognize that they have some issues of boundaries, either other people violating their boundaries or maybe issues respecting other people's boundaries? So, what are some signs that might show up, where a person would recognize this?
I think one of the big ones is people pleasing.
People pleasing and sacrificing yourself to please other people. If you can't ever say no to someone, if you do things for other people that compromises you in some way... I'm trying to think of examples here. But when you are completely burnt out, and someone else asks you to just do something else for them, and you say yes even though you're on the edge yourself. So the constant saying yes, the people pleasing. I think sometimes it's hard for us to recognize when we are breaking through other people's boundaries.
Because I think you can feel uncomfortable with constantly saying yes, but you might not be able to identify when you're not respecting other people's boundaries. That's a tough one because, I mean, usually it's when relationships break down that we can kind of see, "Why did that happen?" And then if someone doesn't have good self-awareness, then it can be really hard for them to be able to identify that maybe they were not respectful of people's boundaries. And it's also a really hard thing to accept, as well, because then you've got to be able to look at yourself and say, "Yeah, I did that."
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. For me, it's always, I know if someone else is pressing up on a boundary, or violating one of my boundaries, because it doesn't feel good.
I'll feel guilty about something, something unwarranted. I'll feel guilty about it. Or it's just an "ick" feeling, to me, where I feel like it feels heavy and icky. Like, "I don't want to be doing this." And that's always, for me, a really good sign that, "This is a boundary. They need to be mindful of it." But yeah. you said, how do we know if we're violating someone else's boundary if they don't tell us?
Yeah. And good communication is key around this. And I'm going to link back to something that you actually posted on social media, because I really like this. It was a recent thing where you posted about, with friends, and you've got something you want to share. It's either good or bad, but it's something that they might not be able to deal with at the time. And you don't know that. So actually asking them, "Do you have capacity for this right now? Can I talk to you about this?" And I love that you shared that, because, to me, then, that gives the other person an opportunity to be respected-
... as well. And that's something we often don't think about, is that we complain about, "Oh, people don't treat me respectfully." Well, you're giving them an opportunity, right there, to treat them respectfully, because then you can say, "No, I don't have capacity for this right now. And it's not because I don't care about you. It's not about you. It's because I have so much of my own stuff."
You're asking people's boundaries and allowing them to share that. And I just think that's so respectful.
I agree. That post came from something that I've been working on myself, trying to be more mindful of, is, "Does this person have a space for me to vent?" Sometimes we just dump on our friends, and it's not ill intended. We're just going through stuff, or something has come up, and we tend to just want to vomit all of our emotions on someone.
But you don't know where that person is, and can they handle it at that moment. Or even, like you said, if it's something positive, too, if you're... have something super exciting that you want to share with your friend, but maybe they're having the worst day of their lives, and you don't know.
And if they have poor boundaries, then they might take on that, and agree to support you. And they can't, and then they feel guilty that they haven't supported you in their best way. So yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think, as you said, that's where we see relationships break down. And you and I have had this conversation fairly recently, that I'd had an experience where we were going through fertility issues in our marriage, and a friend got pregnant and couldn't understand why I couldn't be excited for her. And I really wanted to be excited for her and to be there. And I just couldn't because what we were going through was so emotionally traumatic for us, and so difficult, that to try to be excited for someone else's pregnancy was too much, and the friendship broke down. I didn't have the skills, or the tools, or resources to tell her, "I can't be this friend" and to explain that to her. And she wasn't in a place where she could understand that that was my boundary. And because there was no communication, the friendship just broke down. Yeah, we lost the friendship over it.
Yeah. And I can think of stories that I've heard from clients, and even my own personal background, where that has happened. Yeah.
And it's something. Boundaries, for me, is one of the main things that I work on with clients. I hear people coming in and saying, "I have anxiety, and I don't understand why because I've got this great life." And when we actually get to start talking about things, they'll say things like, "Oh, well, I do this at work because no one else will take it on. So I do it. And I'm the one that does all the carpooling with all the kids." They're listing off all of these things that they're doing. And it's like, "Hmm, okay. So we need to work on boundaries with this, then." But then, there's also warning people who have had no boundaries that, "When you start implementing them, there's going to be a lot of pushback. Things are going to be tough for a while." And I see that a lot as well. And that's, again, where people come back into the counseling room, and we talk about the fallout that they're experiencing from people who are now not benefiting from this lack of boundaries anymore.
Right. Do you do you have some tips for how people navigate that? If you've been in a relationship with someone, a friendship, work relationship, partnership, and you haven't had boundaries, or you haven't been enforcing them, and now suddenly you go to enforce your boundaries, and you recognize what they are, how do you navigate that with that person?
This is where healthy communication, and other people, come in, because someone who is in a good place themselves, and who is very self-aware, you'll be able to have that conversation with them that, "I've realized that this lack of boundaries wasn't serving me," and they'll understand. And they'll be like, "Yeah. I see that. I respect that. I will be mindful of that." That's kind of a healthy sort of response. They might not like it. They might have issues with it, but they'll be able to respect it.
We don't always come up against that. And this is where you get to do some real exploring of the relationships around you, and what ones matter, and what you can expect from people. You might get a lot of pushback and aggression from some people. People will think you are being mean and bullying them. Sometimes even bullying comes up.
And I know, actually, a recent experience of mine where I disagreed with a process. And I stated that and was accused of being mean. And it's like, "No. This isn't personal. This is about process." But it was very... because to them, they didn't like my boundary.
And they took it very personally. So then I have, now, to explore that relationship and that person. Where's the respectfulness? Where are they are boundaries?
Because they're charging through mine. So when I put a little one up, they don't like that. It can get explosive. You can't take on the work for other people. So looking at those relationships and knowing that you can only protect yourself. And if someone is pushing back, do you have enough of a boundary up?
Right. Yeah. And those are, maybe, relationships that maybe you do have to let go of.
Or maybe not even let go, but know that that's what you can expect from those people, so sort of manage your emotional investment with those people according to that.
Right. Right. What about client boundaries? I know pretty much every point in my client agreement is because I learned at some point I had a boundary about it. And I remember, I added in a piece into my client agreement of, "How we will communicate, what forms of communication we use in-between sessions, and what to expect." And that was only in response to having clients who were not respecting my time, and thinking that I was on the clock 24/7, and that they could drop me a text message anytime and I will drop whatever is happening in my life to manage them. So I realized that's a boundary, and it's on me to set the boundary. They don't know. And so I changed my client agreement. And I got some pushback from a few clients on that, who are no longer clients because they could not respect that.
With clients, if you're a coach, a practitioner, a counselor, how do you set those boundaries of clients? And how do you enforce them in a client relationship where you're getting paid to help this person?
Yeah. This is a big one because I see so many ways that this could blow up. I mean, first of all, we can't make the assumption that people get it. Because exactly what you said there, about ways to communicate with you and when to communicate with you... It might be common sense to us-
... but people are coming from different places, and they might not get it, just because they'll respond to a text message at 11 o'clock at night. If you then do that, you're teaching them that you'll respond to a text message at 11 o'clock at night.
So they don't understand. Or another one, which I find... Really, this is a tough one to navigate, especially when you are in the wellness industry, I find is... Well, and even business coaching and things like that... is when you're on social media. And if someone can see that you have visibility on social media, and then they're like, "But I just messaged you, and you didn't respond." And then that creates a situation for them that they need to deal with. But also I find, as a counselor, I'll have a conversation with someone, and then they will send a Facebook friend request. And from a licensing perspective, that's a dual relationship that, really, do I want to invite people into my private world that I see in that capacity?
So I actually have conversations with clients. If they are client, sometimes I'll get inquiries but I've not even had a discovery call with, and they'll try and add me on social media. And I don't accept those, because they're not even people that I know. I don't want to invite that into my private social... Private social media? That's contradiction in itself. Not my business social media.
Yeah. Your personal [crosstalk 00:14:35].
My personal stuff. Because my kids are on that, things like that. Right? And also, it's also experiences that I've had. Even with the school, with the children, there will be teachers that are on Facebook groups and things like that. And there's that boundary where they can't interact with you, and it's being mindful and respectful of that. I mean, I remember a few years ago, there was a situation where, to find out classroom gifts for teachers, some of the moms went on social media to look at her accounts, to see what she liked. And it was like, "Ooh, that's a boundary violation there." She should be able to have that kind of stuff.
So, setting clear boundaries, I'll have the conversation with clients that I'll say, "I'm not going to add you on social media. If you follow my business accounts, then that's okay. But I won't follow you back, because I'm just maintaining that boundary." I like what you said about client agreements, I think. And again, clarity of communication, just actually talking to people, having that conversation so that they're not sitting there being, "Why isn't she accepting my friend request?"
Right. So they know exactly what to expect.
Yeah. And what you said about the clear working hours is another thing. I have one client who, on his cell phone, he put a voicemail recording. "You can reach me between these hours. And if you call afterwards, I will get back to you within X amount of time-"
"... during business hours." I mean, still people don't always listen, but he's laying it out quite clearly. And it worked out well for him.
Good. And hearing you talk about that and the social media stuff, I think social media opens us up to so many other ways that we recognize boundaries, or need to enforce-
... our boundaries and be mindful of them. I think it is sort of a tricky subject when you have clients. You're licensed. I'm an unlicensed provider, so I'm a coach and trainer. There's no regulations on whether I can be friends with my clients on social media or follow them. And so it can become a little trickier in that space to be like, "How much of my life do I want them in on, and how much do I want them to see? And where are those lines?" Or also becoming friends with your clients.
I know in the counseling space, there's a definite line there. But in the coaching or in other wellness fields, there's no line. You can be friends with your clients, and that creates all kinds of other potential issues for miscommunication of boundaries.
Totally. And I mean, on the one hand I have clients that I think are super cool. But yeah, cannot pursue any kind of friendship with them at all. On the other hand, what you said there about being licensed and unlicensed, I have a "Get out of jail free" card with that. I can fall back on that, whereas you can't. So that means that you've got to be even more firm in the boundaries that you set, because you don't have that to sort of fall back on.
Yeah. I can't say, "Well, my licensing says we cannot socialize in this way." [inaudible 00:18:19] it becomes challenging, I think. You and I've had some conversations about this in the past, too, is when you have friends who... They know what you do. And so they start to cross that line.
You counseling and into conversations. How do you navigate through that? If you have your friends, family, who are... It's like we were talking about earlier... just want to sort of dump their stuff on you because you're a counselor. "You take this and deal with it" kind of thing.
Again, I'm pretty direct about that. I will ask them. I'll say to them, "Are you looking for a friend or a counselor?"
"Because if you're looking for a counselor, it can't be me, because I'm your friend. And I can't be neutral about this. I have feelings. I am emotionally invested in you. So if someone has hurt you, I have feelings about that. So I can't counsel you." And I'm quite clear about that. Yeah. But again, I find that I'm pretty straight about it, because I want people to know where they stand. I like to know where I stand. If there's one thing I can't stand, it's passive aggressive communication because that is another sign of poor boundaries. And people, then, who communicate in a direct way with someone who's a passive aggressive communicator, they take that as aggression-
... not as assertiveness. And they don't recognize it as that person being respectful towards them. Because that boundary that might be that big, they see it as being that big.
Right. Yeah. And I know I've had that experience because I tend to be more of a direct communicator. I like direct communication. And I've had that experience, where people thought I was being too aggressive or assertive with them, or even mean, because I'll speak very direct.
Or they're looking for the underhandedness in what you're saying, because to them, they don't say what they mean.
So they're like, "Hmm. What she really doing here?" When really you're saying what you mean, and you mean what you say.
Yeah. Yeah. And it's just that. Yeah. I do much the same thing. When I have friends who... We go for lunch, for example. Then suddenly I can tell they're looking for coaching.
[inaudible 00:20:44] say much the same thing. I'll say, "Are you talking to me as your friend right now, or as a coach?" But then I go a step further and say, "If you're talking to me as a coach, then you need to book a consultation, and there's a fee for that. But if you just want me, as your friend, to listen and hash it out with you, I'll do that. But I'm not going to coach you."
Yeah. I also think, as well, that's a good thing to do because people might not even realize that that's what they're doing. Because, like you said, it's your job, and they're just sharing.
And I think that's what people tell themselves a lot of the time, that, "Oh, I'm just sharing," but are they? And they might not realize. So when you say that, it gives them the opportunity to sort of reflect a little bit and become more self-aware by asking themselves, "What's my goal here? What's my intent?" Because they might not even realize.
Oh, for sure. And I think, too, if you do allow those lines to be crossed, and the relationship starts to get blurry, then as the coach, as the practitioner, you can actually, I think, cause harm that way. Because, like you said, if I have a friend who's complaining to me about her marriage, for example, I can't be biased. Or I can't be unbiased to that. Right? Because I'm only hearing her side of it. And as her friend, I want to have a glass of wine with her. We're going to we're going to talk about it. "Tell me what's going on." And it's a very different conversation. Whereas if it's coaching... If those lines start to get blurred, you could actually maybe harm someone's relationship, or their business, or whatever area of life it is they're struggling with. You can cause more damage, I think.
And I think if you look at it from a family perspective... Take, for example, a lot of people who are close to their parents, maybe, and they're having problems in their marriage, and they vent about all the stuff that's going on there. And then, later on, when things are okay, they wonder why their parents hate their partner.
Oh, yeah. [crosstalk 00:22:48]-
They know all the crappy stuff.
Because you didn't protect that marriage with those boundaries. I mean, I'm not saying don't talk to people about bad stuff that's going on.
But also, you can't then be surprised that there's some kind of divide in the relationship because of that.
Yeah. Reminds me of a funny meme I saw the other day on Instagram. Oh, it was a Reel. It was a therapist who did a Reel. It was something along the lines of, "When your therapist meets your boyfriend for the first time." The sound over it was, "I know what you did." That's exactly it. They know things. It's the same in relationships. Something I've always been very protective of is my relationship with my husband. And so I'm always mindful of, "What am I saying to other people?" If we're having an argument or disagreement, if I'm talking to my friends about it, what I'm saying about him, because he can't be there to defend himself, and he can't correct it. So to be mindful of what we say about our partners, I think, is really important.
Yeah. Because it sure makes that next buffet dinner awkward, if they all know-
... what's going on.
Everyone's there like, "Mm-hmm (affirmative)."
"Know what you did. You did not change the laundry."
"You left your underpants on the floor. And the socks."
"... all on the bed."
"And we all know." Yeah, that is so true.
Yeah. I know you've done some Reels about workplace boundaries. That can be a tough one, when you have a power dynamic of a boss and employee.
It can, but this is also, again, where you can fall back on those job descriptions and contracts. A great one to pull out of your back pocket in situations like that, your work hours. So if a boss is calling you at 7:00 AM for things, you can say, "Well, I'll be there at 9:00," or whatever time it is that you start. And then, if they're putting more and more work on you, saying, "Okay, well, this is not actually in my job description. I'll get as much done as I can during the time that I'm there. But this is not something that I can take on."
Again, work situations can be challenging for business owners. Setting specific hours is a really helpful boundary because when you own your own business, it's your baby. Right? You can work on it in the evenings. You can work on it on weekends. And I know, Teri, as a business coach, you do great work around helping people to time manage and to prioritize tasks. I know that's something that even I've worked on with you in the past, and it's been really effective. If a business owner is struggling in that way, get a business coach because they can teach you these skills. And it's really helpful. If you're in the work environment, it's slightly different, but again, falling back on contracts and job descriptions.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that brings to mind for me, it's upholding our own boundaries with ourselves, too. So as the business owner, being mindful of where the boundaries are, and then protecting them against yourself, really.
And even with health. This is another thing, where we can not recognize boundaries around health burning out staffers. And also, people who are really hard on themselves about the way that they eat and things like that, are they respecting their own boundaries through what they're eating? And do they need to seek out support? And I know that NLP and Time Line therapy, and hypnotherapy, can be really helpful for people who need support with those kinds of goals as well, to see what else is going on. Because this whole willpower thing... We know it's not willpower. It's a whole lot of other stuff going on. But being mindful of your boundaries around things like that, too. And with health goals.
Yeah. Yeah. That's been a big one for me, is setting those health boundaries, and being mindful of them, and upholding them for myself, and realizing what's important to me.
I think we see a lot of that playing out in commitments, if we uphold our commitments or if we don't. So I know, for example, if I commit to, "I'm going to work out three times in the week," if I don't do that, it doesn't feel good. And so then I can recognize like, "I broke a commitment to myself and violated my own boundaries. [inaudible 00:27:48] feel good."
Yeah. [crosstalk 00:27:51].
I think that's where we can sort of be mindful of setting commitments and keeping those commitments, or renegotiating them if they're not working.
I like that you said that, the renegotiating part, because I think that brings into play, then, self-compassion and things like that, which is, again, a really important factor. And this is kind of where it gets a little muddy, is the honoring boundaries and commitments, renegotiating and having compassion with yourself when you don't, but also not using that as an excuse to violate boundaries.
Because that's where it gets muddy.
Yeah. And I see that with my clients a lot.
[inaudible 00:28:31] a client I had many years ago. She got her very first client. And she was so excited to have her first client for her business. And I was excited for her. And then she said, "But I need to reschedule her appointment." And I said, "Why?" And she said, "Well, I have a hair appointment that day." And I said, "Well, you have a client who's paying you for the service. Why don't you reschedule your hair appointment and take care of your client?" And she said, "Well, it's self care." And I think, "No, that's not. At that point, that's sabotage."
And there's such a fine line there. And what I had said to her was, "You haven't worked in six months. You've done nothing but self care. You've been taking great care of yourself."
"Now you can take care of your business and your client." And it doesn't mean that you sacrifice yourself for your clients. But knowing when is it self-care, and when is it it sabotage? When are you making excuses to let yourself off the hook for upholding your and your commitments? And when is it that you really need that self-compassion and to take care of yourself? I think that comes back, again, to self-awareness, is knowing where those lines are and where the tipping point is, where it's becoming more of a negative behavior or you're sabotaging yourself.
Yeah. That also works on the flip side, as well, with people who are just, "I just like to help people. It brings me joy to help people." And they literally are burnt out, can't sleep at night, so much nervous energy because that's all they do is help other people, and it brings them joy. And then it brings into play things like toxic positivity, which is another thing. But social media is really... I feel like it's contributed to a lot, because you see people posting these quotes and things like that that quite often come from a really privileged perspective as well. Yeah.
Yeah. There was something I was reading the other day that was talking about... Again, it was a weight loss thing. It was a calories in, calories out [inaudible 00:30:56]. There was someone that was arguing against this. A nutritionist, actually. And she was saying that that's a really privileged perspective to come from because then you're saying, "Well, all you have to do is two things, eat less, move more."
Those two things, we don't always have control of the things like that. This is a financial boundary again, because some people don't have the financial means to eat wild-caught salmon three times a week.
And it's honoring that and allowing them to have that boundary, that financial boundary, because they're doing the best they can. And that's, again, a principle of NLP, right? People are doing the best they can, with the skills and the resources that they have available to them.
Yup. It reminds me of a video I saw fairly recently of a nutritionist. People were coming at her on social media because she gave advice that she had shared. She gave advice to a single mother who works at McDonald's, and she had some health goals. I think she gets free employee meals or at least very discounted meals. And so it was something that fit into her budget, to eat there. And it was how she was also helping to feed her family, her kids, because it was available to her, and she was working within what she had. And she also wanted to reach her health goals. And so this nutritionist went through, "These are ways you can eat this food, and support your goals, and support your kids in the best way possible."
And she got ripped apart by people saying that, as a nutritionist, she should not be encouraging someone to eat at McDonald's. And she came back with a great response, saying, "Well, this is her life circumstances. Not everybody can afford to eat organic food all day."
"Not everyone has access to these kinds of foods, and there's nothing wrong with what she's doing. I want to support her within what she has. And this is what she has to work with. And we want to support her within that. She's a mother feeding her children, and she's doing the best she can."
And the time constraints. She probably doesn't even have time to run around cooking all the time, because she's got to be doing all the things for. Yeah. Progress, not perfection. Right? She's doing the best she can with what she has available to her. And I think that should be something we should all be working towards, because some of us have very fortunate to be where we are-
... and have the luxury. Sometimes these things are a luxury for us, a privilege, to be able to eat a certain way, to even work out, sometimes is a privilege.
Oh, for sure. For sure it is. Yeah. And you never know where that other person's coming from or what's going on in their world.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think social media creates so many great things. We can talk about toxic positivity, boundaries, on social media.
I think it's interesting, actually, how a lot of boundaries disappear on social media. Well, they also increase, and they decrease, I guess, because some people, keyboard warriors, they'll respond with things. And if you saw them on the street, there's no way they would say those things to you.
And then, other people, because they know people are watching, will perform in a way that you know is not sincere or congruent to their behavior.
Oh, definitely. Definitely. Yeah. It really blurs those lines.
It muddies the waters a lot.
Oh, so confusing. I've had people say things to me on social media that I know they would never say in real life. Yup. And I've seen the opposite, where people are behaving in a way on social media that's not really them, or the false personas that people create on social media. That creates a whole other list of issues. We're all seeing everybody's edited, perfect, glossy lives, and that's not really real.
Yeah. It sets an impossible standard.
Yeah. Yeah. So, any last thoughts about ways people can establish boundaries in their relationships, maintain them?
I liked what you said earlier on. When someone is violating a boundary, you might not always know what boundary they're violating and in what way they're violating it. But you know, your body. You have a reaction, physical, like an "ick" feeling. So you know. And then you've got to kind of explore how you can then honor that boundary. It is really hard. And knowing that you're going to upset people... I think you've got to be open to that. But in the end, the results that you'll get will be a much more stress-free existence. Think about in-laws, and when you put up boundaries, that they know. [inaudible 00:36:35].
I'm just joking. They're wonderful. They're lovely. I love them all.
Yeah. They're all wonderful. But they come with their challenges. And I know that. I've got two mother-in-laws now. My first mother-in-law didn't speak English. So she was wonderful because all she could say was, "I love you, baby. I love you, baby." And that was great.
There's definitely challenges that come with with in-laws and around parenting their grandchildren.
A lot of families have problems then. Just being really firm with the boundaries, and following through, and being consistent. And you know, from being a business coach, consistency is everything because, again, if you don't, consistently upholding those boundaries, then it's confusing for other people, and they-
... don't know how to respond to that.
Yeah. We teach people. I think it was Dr. Phil that said this. We teach people how to treat us. And so if we're [crosstalk 00:37:36]-
Wd do, but we're also not responsible for other people's behavior.
No. For sure. But if we're constantly stepping away from boundaries and not enforcing them, then we're teaching people that that's okay to do.
No. There's no consequence to it, where I think the more we uphold our own boundaries and say, "No. This is it. This is the line-"
... and we don't allow that to happen, then, I think, we start teaching people the importance of them, and that this is how the relationship needs to function.
Yeah. And you can revisit those boundaries at different times. But yeah, like what you said, being firm about that and communicating clearly.
And if people don't like it, then that's their thing to explore, why they don't like those boundaries. And even allowing them that. You can say to them, "I can appreciate that you feel hurt by this." Or, "I can appreciate that you don't like what I'm saying. But this is my boundary. And yeah, you need to explore why you don't like that, in your own time. It's not my job to help you with that." And that's my job.
Yeah. And they can refer them to you.
Which is a perfect segue into, how do people work with you, Kate? How do they connect with you? How do they work with you? What are you offering right now?
Well, after I bashed social media a little bit, that's where you can find me. My Facebook page, Cariad Wellness. My Instagram handle... And I'm sure you share those, but it's @kate_cariadwellness. My website, www.cariadwellness.com.
So you can email. My phone number is there. I will respond during office hours.
Perfect. Nice boundaries.
Yes. And not always immediately, because sometimes I am busy helping other people.
Just because someone doesn't respond immediately, it doesn't mean they don't care.
Yes. Good point. And I think that's another another way our very fast-paced Internet, "I want it all now" world has changed us and shaped us, is that people expect those immediate responses. And it's okay to not respond immediately.
And especially if you set the expectation of when you will respond, the people know. As long as they know, it makes it a lot easier.
And that's in a business sense and in a friendship sense as well.
Yeah. You can't always respond immediately. You might be working out. You might be cooking dinner. You might be dealing with sick kids. You might be dealing with elderly parents. You might just be sitting down, reading a book, practicing self-care.
Yup. You might just need your own time. That's okay.
Yeah. And, "No is a full sentence." I like that.
Yes. I like that one, too.
And I think that, really, the more that people uphold their boundaries and respect the boundaries of the people that they're in relationships with, I think that through that, we form stronger relationships, and it creates even stronger connections.
So, as you had mentioned the people pleasers earlier, I think sometimes we think, or we feel, that we have to say yes to everything because we hold that relationship as being so important.
And the way to really honor and take care of that relationship is to respect boundaries on both sides.
And there's a fear of being rejected.
Something that you've actually said, "Pleasing everyone is pleasing nobody."
You don't get an opportunity to distance yourself from people who might not be good for you, if you try and please everybody.
Yeah. There's a Chelsea Handler quote that I'm probably going to butcher, but I love it. I'm paraphrasing her. But she said, "If you're pleasing everybody, you're vanilla ice cream. And you're boring." Or, "If you're making everybody happy," or something like that, "you're vanilla ice cream. You're boring." And that's always stuck with me because I thought, "Nobody gets that excited for vanilla ice cream. People want..." They want the salted caramel. They want something something a little-
I was just going to say that. Salted caramel.
We're on the same wavelength.
That's my ice cream choice.
They want the real deal. They want you. And if you try to mute yourself, or shape yourself into being what everybody else wants, you lose yourself, and you lose what makes you special and unique.
And it's exhausting.
Yeah. It brings the right people into your life, to be you.
If you're pleasing everybody, then they don't get to see who you really are. Like you said, you're diluted.
Yeah. Oh, that sounds horrible.
It's not diluted.
Not us, though. You and I like our flash and our leopard.
[inaudible 00:43:01] our sequins, our glitter. Yeah.
Not today. Today we're both in black.
And no leopard. No sequins.
Well, there's watch straps. There's nails.
You got the strap. I don't have any on me today.
But you do have your color-coordinated bookshelf in the background, which-
I do. I do. I have [crosstalk 00:43:19].
That inspired so many people at the start of the pandemic last year.
Glad. My bookshelf can inspire someone. That makes me very happy. Thank you so much for coming on today, Kate. I'll put all of your contact information in the show notes.
If you're struggling with boundaries in your life or in your relationships, in any aspect of your life, really, Kate is an expert and the right person that you want to reach out and talk to.
Thank you, Teri.