Amanda Pruden Interview
[00:00:00] Teri Holland: I am so excited to have Amanda Pruden back on the show today. She's going to share with us what we need to do as business owners to remain agile in a recession economy. She shares with us great tips and strategies to continue growing your business, to change direction in business, and to make sure that we are staying ahead of the game.
[00:00:21] Teri Holland: Amanda Pruden is a business strategist and operations expert who partners with visionary CEOs to help them propel their businesses forward and beyond. Both behind the scenes and publicly for scalability and sustainability. Amanda spent over 13 years, doing all things business while working in fancy skyscrapers for multi-billion dollar corporations after experiencing burnout and wanting to walk her dog every day at lunch, she left the corporate world.
[00:00:51] Teri Holland: She has translated the structure and strategy of corporate and mixed it with the flexibility and freedom of entrepreneurship to support small businesses [00:01:00] with people, processes, and productivity, so they can achieve profits, high performance and peace.
[00:01:06] Teri Holland: Amanda also believes in supporting her clients in the power of mindset, especially an agile mindset and continuous improvement mindset for entrepreneurship. She is also certified as a practitioner of NLP and an NLP coach, a hypnotherapist and a timeline therapy practitioner. Amanda is just as excited. When a client tells her, they took a nap on a Workday as she is when the client says they doubled their income.
[00:01:33] Teri Holland: Excellence and success looks different for everyone. And Amanda is passionate about helping every client achieve their version of that.
[00:01:41] Teri Holland: Welcome, Amanda. It's so [00:02:00] great to have you back on the show again. And for those who maybe haven't caught your original episode can you tell us a little bit about who you are and what it is that you do with business owners?
[00:02:12] Amanda Pruden: Thank you so much for having me back. I know we have a lot of great conversations offline and so it's fun to bring them to the podcast every once in a while.
[00:02:19] Amanda Pruden: My name's Amanda Pruden. My business is creatively named Amanda Pruden, l c, and I am basically a business strategist and project launch manager for businesses. Heavy on operations, processes, systems your team structure, your project, and your launch management. Processes, strategy, all of that.
[00:02:42] Amanda Pruden: So I do that with different business owners in different ways from like strategy sessions to longer term engagements, all of that. And I have fun. That's what I love to do. It's what I've been doing for a long time. I. Awesome.
[00:02:54] Teri Holland: And what I'm excited about this conversation in particular was you had posted the other day on [00:03:00] Instagram about adapting your business and being flexible during a recession, and I thought that is such a timely conversation to be having right now.
[00:03:09] Teri Holland: So let's dive into that. So what are some things that business owners can keep in mind when we're looking at this recession economy and how we get through it?
[00:03:21] Amanda Pruden: The first thing I think that we should keep in mind is business owners, especially in the online space, is realizing that we can be impacted by recessions.
[00:03:29] Amanda Pruden: I think that the online business space is still relatively new and young enough and has experienced an explosion since the the pandemic came and things were shut down, and more people started to create their own businesses at home. Is that we are not recession proof just because we've done well.
[00:03:49] Amanda Pruden: There's roller coasters and ebbs and flows to every industry, no matter how in demand. Like we can even look at tech and some people will think, tech, because tech keeps evolving that of [00:04:00] course that has to be recession proof. But you look at this current recession, most of the layoffs are coming outta the tech industry, right?
[00:04:05] Amanda Pruden: Yeah. It's first having this mindset that it probably will happen and it is happening. And that's okay. That's a natural course of life and business. Yeah. And going with that, so when we can, and that's part of what I think I was talking about on Instagram too, is that a lot of people were in denial early on saying we won't be impacted.
[00:04:27] Amanda Pruden: Or being impacted means that you're doing business wrong. It could, sometimes we do have to do business in a more strategic way or in a more like aligned, intentional way or adapt to trends. And at the same time, sometimes there's outer influences impacting our industry and our clients' ideal clients that we need to be able to work with.
[00:04:51] Teri Holland: Absolutely. And I was one of those business owners at the beginning of the pandemic who thought my business is mostly online. I'm not gonna be affected by this. I [00:05:00] don't need to see clients in person. And then within two or three weeks, My whole business was
[00:05:06] Teri Holland: shutting down because what I didn't anticipate was that if my clients aren't making money, I'm not making money.
[00:05:12] Teri Holland: So if they're losing contracts in business, then the next thing they're canceling is working with me I think it's also having that, like we can't just put our heads in the sand and think everything's gonna be fine. We need to look forward as to where are the possible weaknesses of my business?
[00:05:28] Teri Holland: Where can this impact me? Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And there's a famous, I think it's famous Sam Walton quote. From the, I think it was the recession in the nineties, that he was asked, what do you think about the recession? And he said, I choose not to participate, or I've heard of it and I've chose not to participate.
[00:05:48] Teri Holland: I'm paraphrasing. Yeah. And I think that's a good mindset to have. But at the same time, like we can't really avoid what's happening in our environment. Can we?
[00:05:58] Amanda Pruden: Yeah, you can't. [00:06:00] And then that's when like resiliency and strategy and all these other tools that we also talk a lot about come into play. And I like you bringing up mindset there because I.
[00:06:11] Amanda Pruden: The online space especially likes to talk a lot about mindset and manifestation. And so part of what I've heard with the recession or like even early 2023 when they were saying the government's saying we're in a recession, economist's arm, people are like I'm not feeling it. And it's it's a definition, it's based on data.
[00:06:29] Amanda Pruden: But then like, How long will it last? Will it impact us? Who will it impact? There's just so much there. And part of what I heard too was money's so abundant, like money's everywhere. Therefore, if you can't survive this, then that means that you're you're also not doing something good with your mind and your thoughts and your intentions and everything, which is also very harmful to people because then that, ah, The, just like, how is that gonna [00:07:00] make you feel and how is that gonna make you struggle more internally?
[00:07:02] Amanda Pruden: That's not going to help you get through if you are having some sort of mindset issue. And also what you were talking about with your business and how it shut down and is you're like, oh, because my clients weren't making money, is we forget that there's a trickle effect. And so maybe my online business is doing great.
[00:07:21] Amanda Pruden: But then sub prices are going up, like we're dealing with crazy inflation. And so what I'm seeing constantly is subscription prices for online platforms. Online services, like your bookkeeping software, your maybe Zoom or whatever. All these things keep going up. That starts eating at your bottom line.
[00:07:42] Amanda Pruden: Like you're either, even if you're making the same amount in revenue, are you gonna save less money? Are you going to pay yourself less money? Are you going to hire out less special projects? Or maybe you know, your expenses at home are growing and you don't wanna sacrifice your life, so then you start drawing [00:08:00] more money from your business to give yourself a raise to offset that.
[00:08:05] Amanda Pruden: Or maybe your partner, your spouse, whoever's contributing financially in your household, maybe they're impacted by the recession, they've lost a job, or they've had a salary cut, they've had their hours cut, whatever that looks like, and then all of a sudden there's less money coming into your household.
[00:08:23] Amanda Pruden: Which then might be like, okay, now I need, I have more responsibility to contribute and keep things afloat. Therefore, I maybe can't invest in the Mastermind, or I have to ask a team member if we can cut back their hours. I know a lot of people like, don't wanna do those type of things, but you have to assess your expenses and see am I going to, what can I keep things status quo?
[00:08:47] Amanda Pruden: Do I need to cut back a bit? Do I need to cancel things? It's, yes, you can choose not to participate. I think that's a great mentality. To say because I think that recession proof can also be like, equals fear [00:09:00] equals lack. And so I think that there's some good takeaways there, but then there's also, it's not necessarily your choice.
[00:09:09] Amanda Pruden: Yep. All the time. Yep.
[00:09:11] Teri Holland: Absolutely. And I've seen I have a friend, a really good friend of mine who's self-employed, and her husband works in tech. And he hasn't been impacted directly yet, but a lot of his team has been let go. So yeah, he's more stressed because he's. Not sure where his job, like how much security he has right now.
[00:09:29] Teri Holland: And then also picking up a lot of slack from not having as big of a team to work with. So it's creating stress in the family even though their income maybe hasn't changed. It's creating other stresses in the family. And I think that's the other sides of this that we also need to look at is how does it impact us emotionally?
[00:09:46] Teri Holland: How is it impacting US health-wise? Like how there are so many different factors in a recession economy that. Do affect us that we can't really ignore.
[00:09:56] Amanda Pruden: Yeah, and I like that you brought that up too, about the [00:10:00] impacts of what we call a corporate job a lot. In the online space, what we refer to as corporate is because some people in the online space do still have a corporate job as well.
[00:10:10] Amanda Pruden: They're working a corporate job and they have their online space as a part-time thing. Maybe they're hoping to take it full-time one day, or maybe it's just like a passion. But right now they need to keep their full-time job for whatever reason, which is fine. So yeah, it can be the stress that the other people in your life are carrying that you're supporting them with.
[00:10:30] Amanda Pruden: Or it might be that you are partially experiencing that too. And I worked in a boom and bust economy city, and so when things were riding high, Money was flowing. The parties were great, the gifts were great. Lots of free lunches and stuff. And then when it would bust, which was a recession, there would be cutbacks, there would be layoffs.
[00:10:50] Amanda Pruden: People had a hard time wrapping their head around the fact that they weren't gonna be getting like free swag and free lunches all the time. Yeah. And I rode that out [00:11:00] for a very long time before I left and then entered the online space. And what one of my mentors and friends said to me is she was like, people forget about the people that are left behind.
[00:11:10] Amanda Pruden: Of course the huge, like the biggest impact is to the people that are losing their livelihood and the salary and with how sudden that usually is, you'd usually walk into work one day and you're walked out. And, but she was like the lasting impact of the people that have to carry that stress of additional workloads or people bringing stress to the work.
[00:11:29] Amanda Pruden: And then it becomes a bit more competitive or not as friendly and then you don't have as many resources available and. So then again, yes, we can try to have the best mindset. We can try to practice gratitude, but we're all humans at the end of the day, and we're never gonna be riding at a hundred percent like the sparkly unicorn.
[00:11:52] Amanda Pruden: Like we all have our so then to put that additional pressure to people on people to be like you have to always be [00:12:00] riding in this like magical state so that nothing happens to you. It's like that's we're humans and we're humans dealing with humans.
[00:12:07] Teri Holland: Yeah, that's a really good way to put it. Yeah.
[00:12:10] Teri Holland: And we are human and I think so many business owners beat themselves up when they're having a hard time thinking I should be grateful for what I still have, or I should be feeling better about this, or I need to be positive. And you can't really be positive all the time. But I think maybe what we can do is, Be curious look for where are the opportunities for me right now?
[00:12:34] Teri Holland: Even when things really suck or feel shitty, where is the next opportunity? So having maybe a more curious mindset. Yeah. Is a good approach to come from.
[00:12:44] Amanda Pruden: Yes. Yeah. Curiosity and a bit of willingness to experiment. Yeah. To try things to like problem solve and. One of the things that I've heard a lot in the last year, and I'm not sure if you've been hearing it too, [00:13:00] when they talk about the upside to a recession is actually creativity, what comes out of it. Like we're recording over Zoom right now. Yeah. And Zoom was born out of that. Oh gosh. Was it the 2015 recession or the 2010 recession? I can't remember. But like in the last 10, 15 years, zoom was born out of a recession and I think Slack was as well.
[00:13:23] Amanda Pruden: Yeah. And so these tools that we're using as entrepreneurs were born out of. That and where I used to live, which was Calgary, Alberta, that was the boom bust economy. And when they went through the last big boom in the mid 2000 tens, all of a sudden craft breweries were exploding. I. People were getting laid off, they started making beer in their garage and then they were able to go rent a warehouse space and then they were able to bring in some snacks and they were able to and set up some tables.
[00:13:52] Amanda Pruden: Yeah. And then they were started bottling and canning and distributing to liquor stores. And now they have a [00:14:00] recognizable brand that might be available outside of Alberta and stuff. And you're like, wow. Now what I think is my favorite brewery was born out of a recession, so yeah.
[00:14:11] Amanda Pruden: Like you said, see possibility there.
[00:14:14] Teri Holland: Yeah. There's always, I think there's always opportunity. If we have the right mindset to look for it. Yeah. And so it's a fine line. It seems to me of walking between recognizing what's going on and being aware of it, and at the same time, Keeping that open-mindedness.
[00:14:31] Teri Holland: To explore, like you said, and to be creative. Yeah. And find those opportunities where they are. What are what are some ways that you see business owners shifting their businesses to adapt or be more flexible during the recession that you see working well, or some ways that we can maybe start exploring in our own businesses?
[00:14:52] Amanda Pruden: So I always like to say that I'm not a C F O, I'm not a bookkeeper. Like I'm not in a financial position. Yeah, I'm, but it's really hard to separate operations from [00:15:00] finances in a business. So of course you still need that financial expert. Yeah, 100%. But this is where those two roles start, like collaborating a lot together or looking at each other and how they can support each other and. One way is to look at your expenses. So I say go poll your bank statements, your credit card statements, however you've made you've paid for things in your business for the last 12 months. And sometimes what happens is we have those sneaky annual recurring expenses or quarterly that we often we can forget about it.
[00:15:34] Amanda Pruden: And like all of a sudden we look and we're like, where did $400 go? And then you're like, oh, that was that thing that I have, I pay once a year. So to look at these things, See everything that you are paying for and that might hit your bank account unexpectedly. But also take them and put them, I believe in three categories.
[00:15:52] Amanda Pruden: There's your must have, your nice to have, and then I'm gonna say like your luxury spending. Yeah. And so when you're able to bucket [00:16:00] things, if your business is ever in a bit of a slump and you're looking at, okay, financially, how do I get financial flexibility, basically, Then you might be like, okay, these are the ones that I cannot cancel or I really should not roll back.
[00:16:16] Amanda Pruden: These are the ones that I have some flexibility to maybe cancel or roll back to a lower subscription price. Or right now if I'm paying somebody on my team for 40 hours a month and there's just not a need, can I roll them back to 30 or 20? That's not a fun conversation to have. I'm gonna be honest. Yeah.
[00:16:31] Amanda Pruden: Also though, being a business owner, part of what you're signing up for is tough decisions. And it's the same thing in corporate. When you get into leadership, you're gonna have conversations that aren't fun, make decisions, but that's part of it. So how do you do it with empathy? How do you do it with appreciation?
[00:16:46] Amanda Pruden: How do let them know that I'm not, it's not because you're not doing good, it's because I still want you. Yeah. Or maybe that's working with your subscription plans and then the luxury is, no, I'm not gonna tell somebody what [00:17:00] luxury is, but maybe maybe there's a system or a a thing that they do in their business that they don't advertise, so it's not tied to a deliverable they've promised, but it's like a special thing they like to sneak for their clients, right?
[00:17:12] Amanda Pruden: Maybe that's where you have to pull back, or maybe there's some sort of. And don't shoot the messenger, the people out there that have masterminds in coaching and stuff, but maybe you're keeping your coach but you're not investing on top of it into the Mastermind. Or maybe like you're just picking one of those, or maybe you're like I'm gonna take a three month break or whatever till I sign up for the next round, or, Yeah, like whatever luxury is like in your business, but you never wanna be so reactive that you're cutting things that are critical.
[00:17:40] Amanda Pruden: What happens if you get another client again tomorrow? Can you still sign them? Can you still get them to pay? Can you still have this software that is an independent contractor? They're expecting you to have to be able to deliver for them. So one is to really look at those expenses, and another one is to, [00:18:00] again, when we think about creativity and seeing opportunity, is I.
[00:18:04] Amanda Pruden: Wow. Maybe I have some free time now to do this stuff that I've been pushing down my list. Yeah, because I've been so busy and maybe that's taking on a project that is going to add to your business. Maybe it is cleaning up the copy for your website and sales pages. Maybe it's addressing the mess on your desktop and getting it into like nice folders in Dropbox.
[00:18:32] Amanda Pruden: Yeah. look down here. Yeah. Or like the post-it notes and scribbles you've got around you or whatever. To clean that and like the business owners that I see do the best are the ones that see those opportunities in it, and that doesn't mean that maybe they're not having some type of low level stress or maybe that they're dipping into their savings without being able to replenish as much.
[00:18:56] Amanda Pruden: Again, these are all very personal decisions and people have different levels of threshold [00:19:00] for risk as well. Definitely. If instead you're like, oh, I would normally have five client calls a day, and now I have two or three be like, okay, what can I do with those other two to three time slots that I can still invest in my business so that when it picks up, I even in a better place to take people on.
[00:19:24] Amanda Pruden: That's a great idea. Yeah. Yeah. And look at your busy seasons too, right? Like maybe in the fall it's gonna pick up for you or maybe , the holiday season is when it picks up. You just start getting ready for your Black Friday, maybe feel like your Black Friday deals. You always throw them together at the last minute.
[00:19:40] Amanda Pruden: Now you've got some more time to be intentional there, and also more time for yourself. Maybe you're gonna be like, oh, now I can take a nap, or now I can have more of a leisurely warning. Or maybe some people are picking up little side hustles. [00:20:00] That's okay too, right? Because it's whatever is keeping you like financially and mentally and even physically sharp.
[00:20:08] Amanda Pruden: And so that less stress, everything so you can show up.
[00:20:11] Teri Holland: Absolutely. That's really, that's all really good advice. Thank you for that. And I think even within our businesses, like we can look at what we're offering too and how we're positioning our offers, right? Yeah. And maybe looking at how we can repackage things or adjust our offers to make it more accessible for people.
[00:20:30] Teri Holland: Do you have any advice on that or how we can look at our sales differently or sales strategy differently?
[00:20:37] Amanda Pruden: Yeah, so I love the idea of evaluating your offerings, your packages, and how you're marketing those structuring not only the deliverables, but how, what your price is and what your payment structure is for that.
[00:20:52] Amanda Pruden: So there are people that want to raise their rates, need to raise their rates, and maybe that's what you also are doing during the recession, and maybe you [00:21:00] have to tell your clients. You know what? I'm raising my rates because all of my expenses have gone up. Nobody. That's again, tough. Business decisions is like the ripple effect of things.
[00:21:11] Amanda Pruden: Yeah. And so you might have to tell people that you're raising your rates, but also there are ways that you can not raise your rates and still deliver. So one of my clients, what we did is she really did not wanna raise her rates this year. She like, she wanted to be very, this is not right or wrong, but she wanted to be very sensitive to what was going on, and so she's I'd rather keep getting business than like getting less business because I'm raising my rates.
[00:21:37] Amanda Pruden: Was her logic. Yeah. So we took something from her packages that could easily be packaged and sold as an add-on and was. Low risk to try out. And so when we came up with this strategy, it was not, you are locked. And this is sometimes what happens to people is I think, because if they try something out, they're locking in and it's no, you're experimenting.
[00:21:57] Amanda Pruden: You see how the market receives it, and then you [00:22:00] decide are people revolting? Are people not doing it? Are people happy to do it? And in her case people are adding on like 95, 90 7% of the time. Nice. This thing that we extracted. So she was able to keep the core offering at the same price, but extract something, make it an add-on.
[00:22:18] Amanda Pruden: Nobody's revolting, they're happily paying for it. And so we were able to create some more like revenue in the business. Without it looking like a price increase. Nice. Some people then just say that they don't wanna change their prices. That's fine too. And you were also talking about payment structures and all of that.
[00:22:38] Amanda Pruden: Yeah. Maybe don't do upfront payments anymore. People, yeah. Like honestly, like maybe I think that this is a bit of a reckoning for the online space that people don't wanna turn over 20,000, 50,000 whatever dollars upfront, especially if it's somebody that they don't have a long-term existing [00:23:00] relationship with.
[00:23:00] Amanda Pruden: Absolutely. So how can we make it. How can we make these payments smaller and more digestible so that people can wrap their heads around it and it feels lower risk for them.
[00:23:12] Teri Holland: Yeah that's what I've done in my business right now for my coaching. Yeah. For when I'm on coaching is I've made it so that it's just smaller payments.
[00:23:21] Teri Holland: My session rate hasn't changed at all. I haven't increased it, but I haven't. Decreased it. I've just made it so that it's easier for people to make payments all the way through. And they're not committing upfront to a long-term package and paying for it upfront. And that's, like you said, it's, everyone's business is different, but that's what feels good for me right now, is just making it so that people, it's easier to make a commitment for them that they're not committing over such a long term and they're not paying upfront.
[00:23:49] Teri Holland: Yeah, but they're making smaller payments throughout and it gives them some exit points that if something changes for them financially, they don't have to continue. They're not locked into anything long term, [00:24:00] which, yeah, I love that. I don't know if I'll offer that forever, but right now it feels really good.
[00:24:05] Amanda Pruden: Yeah, and like when we talk about, again, like the energetic part of the money. The energy exchange is still there because like you said, you haven't rolled back your prices so you're not feeling some tension around like what you're delivering ver versus what you're getting. People are still getting the same deliverable, but then everybody's able to show up maybe with a bit more ease.
[00:24:26] Amanda Pruden: Yeah, and a bit more like comfort. And then like you said, you're giving them an exit point instead of coming to you and being like, I'm locked in for one year. X number of months in, but like I really can't keep doing this. Or what happens is a lot of people I find on the back end of businesses don't really approach the business owner and say that what you're most likely to get is a bunch of NSFs.
[00:24:50] Amanda Pruden: Yeah. Or they're just avoiding hitting the pay now button on the invoice that you're sending. And because it's people's pride are tied to it, like [00:25:00] it's a very personal, and it's a hard thing to go to somebody and be like, I over committed, I overspent, I'm having financial. That's hard for people.
[00:25:09] Amanda Pruden: And so when you give people more flexibility where they can just say, something changed in my life, something's come up, whatever I need to take a bit of a break. It helps people feel better about having those conversations when it's in a different way.
[00:25:24] Teri Holland: Definitely. And from my perspective, like it just, it feels better.
[00:25:28] Teri Holland: Like I feel like. What I'm offering is still the same deliverables, but it feels really aligned with what I'm doing. And yeah, I would, and I know that there are business coaches out there who'd be like, that's the wrong way to do it, but I need to feel good about how I run my business at the end of the day.
[00:25:44] Teri Holland: That's more important to me than just getting people's money upfront. Yeah. And I think that's I love how you said that it's been a bit of a reckoning for the online space, I think especially for coaches and people selling courses. Yeah. I think things [00:26:00] got a little too inflated in that industry where people were charging so much money.
[00:26:05] Teri Holland: Yeah. Online course where you might not even get any interaction with the trainer, have any one-on-one help. Yeah. What are you actually paying for? And so I think this. Could potentially be a nice rebalancing in the online space and putting things into a bit of a better perspective for people. Yeah, because I know I've also been burned by a lot of those programs.
[00:26:27] Teri Holland: I'm sure you might have been too, or you've probably had clients who have been where a hundred percent. I did invest the 20 grand and three months in I was like what am I getting? This is not, I'm not getting what was promised to me. I think a lot of us have been there and. I know I never wanna be that person that someone's saying that about.
[00:26:48] Teri Holland: I know that you run your business the same way that you never wanna be that person. Yeah. So I think this could be a really good rebalancing in this sense. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:26:56] Amanda Pruden: I love your term rebalancing because [00:27:00] it is just that like pendulums always swing to different extremes. There's expansion and contractions in things, and again, yeah.
[00:27:08] Amanda Pruden: I think that what we saw was an expansion in a growth of the online space, and so we thought This is unlimited possibility and it's never gonna burst. And it's maybe it's not gonna burst. It needs to find some sort of equilibrium again. And when something experiences massive of growth, not all those players will stay in it for the long game.
[00:27:29] Amanda Pruden: And so it's people having to reevaluate what they're offering, how they're delivering. It's people evaluating if they still want to do this, if it's not as easy to make a quick buck. Yeah. Then, and again, no right or wrong, but it starts shifting up the industry and even when you're there's something you said, About you're not even dealing with the actual person that you see being marketed for the program.
[00:27:57] Amanda Pruden: It's not even that actual coach [00:28:00] sometimes. They might have a trainer on their team, which is fine, but then you're like, oh, but I saw this person, but now this person is the one that's actually like showing up. And what I've even started to see with even some high level coaches is they're like, oh, you get one call with me, or I'll be doing like a one, like I'll be doing a special thing for the people that sign up for this one where they get an hour long training session from me because.
[00:28:24] Amanda Pruden: Even if they might be saying like, oh, I'm untouched. I'm still doing so good. If you pay attention, you're seeing where some of these adjustments are happening. Yeah. And how they're realizing, okay, like I need to step up a bit more here. Yep. Again, that's fine. But yeah, that perception versus what's being delivered I think is really starting to become a point of discussion.
[00:28:47] Teri Holland: Definitely. Yeah. And I've seen, I don't know if you've noticed this, but I've also seen. You mentioned that some people are leaving this space and I've seen a lot of that of people saying, you know what? I'm closing down my coaching practice. [00:29:00] I'm getting a job. Yeah.
[00:29:02] Teri Holland: And I don't think there's any shame in that for anyone who's doing that. We all need to take care of ourselves. You can take care of your family. And yeah. Have you been seeing a lot of that too? People leaving. Yeah, the online world and Yeah,
[00:29:15] Amanda Pruden: For sure. Yeah. I'm seeing two things people are pursuing a side project, like a side hustle. They're picking up some extra work in a different capacity where there's still a need for workers, or they're leaving exclusively to go back to a corporate job and. Being an entrepreneur is amazing for me. I love it. And it's been like the real sweet spot in the balance that I wanted between, I love what I do and I also need to be like more available for my family of fur babies.
[00:29:50] Amanda Pruden: I'm a work from home dog, mom, cat mom. I'm not a stay at home. Yeah. And so for me, this is great. For some people though, what they [00:30:00] realize is that it takes a lot of decision making all the time. And like I said, sometimes hard decision making and some people get fatigued from that. And depending on the other things they have going on in their life, they are might be like, I'm tired of all of those decisions.
[00:30:14] Amanda Pruden: Yeah. Being an entrepreneur is, especially if you are. Not just always outsource. Like some people, they don't market as much. They've just got their like gigs and they like sign and do their work. And so it's a bit less. But when you're marketing and you're doing client delivery and like you're trying to build a business that's more visible you are constantly having to be very self-directed.
[00:30:44] Amanda Pruden: In your work, and some people end up realizing that they're not that great at self-directing their work, and maybe they've tried some strategies, maybe they haven't. To see if they can find a way to make it work. And so then they realize, you know what, maybe I do [00:31:00] better when someone else is making the decision.
[00:31:01] Amanda Pruden: Someone else comes up with a plan and then I'm told this is my piece of execution. Yes. Also, we have to understand as entrepreneurs, you don't, and this is opening a can of worms for a whole nother conversation, is you, unless you're choosing to do it through your business, which is you're giving up revenue in your business to allocate towards healthcare.
[00:31:23] Amanda Pruden: They're not getting an employer match on retirement savings or a pension. Yep. And some other things might be there, depending on packages you're not getting paid vacation. Of course, yes. Are some comp like corporations and companies out there, do they like make it hard for people that unplug on vacation?
[00:31:40] Amanda Pruden: Do they make people work overtime? Do they expect them to check emails on the weekends? Yes. But sometimes people are like, oh my gosh, I didn't have the freedom I wanted. And I need to get that back.
[00:31:54] Teri Holland: Yes. Yeah. I think that's, a lot of us get into entrepreneurship for freedom. But we [00:32:00] don't build our businesses in a way that allows for it.
[00:32:03] Teri Holland: That's good. Yeah. We I've talked about this a lot in previous episodes. It's like you. We want that time freedom, and we want money freedom, but we build our businesses from the perspective of being an employee within the business. Yeah. And not looking at that bigger picture, which is exactly where someone like you comes in, right?
[00:32:22] Teri Holland: Because you have that bigger picture perspective of how does this run. So for a lot of people though, the answer might just be to go back to having a job that's, and I always tell people if you can find someone who's gonna pay you. They're gonna pay you. You work your 40 hours a week or whatever it is, and you get your benefits and you get your vacation time and you leave at the end of the day and don't have to worry about anything.
[00:32:47] Teri Holland: And if you're going, if you could be happy in that. And feel satisfied in it, do that instead. Because yeah, an entrepreneur, you're not always gonna get that. And you might find you're working 80 hours a [00:33:00] week when you're starting your business and you might find that you have a hard time taking those vacations, which.
[00:33:05] Teri Holland: It's a whole other discussion, which I know. Yeah. You have great strategies on and how do you take those times off and how do you plan for it? Yeah. But if you could find a job and be satisfied in it, do that. Yeah. Let someone else worry about the marketing and the. You know the vision and let someone else handle that, and you show up and you do your work.
[00:33:26] Amanda Pruden: And sometimes what I've seen too is some people might go do that for a year or two, and then they're able to recharge, regroup, make whatever changes they need, and then they step back in. Yes. Maybe with a different business, maybe a different business model, but. Just if someone chooses to go back to corporate or if someone is thinking about this, that doesn't mean that you have to close the door on entrepreneurship, that you can't absolutely come back one day.
[00:33:50] Amanda Pruden: It's not a hard and fast rule about that. And so it's really about people like what you've been saying, take care of yourself and do what's the [00:34:00] best for you. And part of that, I think going back to the recession thing, is you have to be willing to admit that entrepreneurship, the online business space.
[00:34:10] Amanda Pruden: It's not perfect. It's not this I can come in and I'm guaranteed this and there won't be any bumps along the road. Yeah. And I think part of the disservice that we do sometimes is we talk so much about all of the perks, but it's harder for us to be vulnerable. And actually, yeah, just another thing that.
[00:34:28] Amanda Pruden: That's sometimes what I hear is that there'll be someone that's considered a fairly big name, or is a big name in the online space. Yeah. And I understand that quite often people can't discuss their struggles or their tough times until they've already healed from them. And some people are for sure open books and deal with it when it's raw, but then you'll hear afterwards where they'll be like, I really slipped in my business.
[00:34:52] Amanda Pruden: I was doing this and this, and I was struggling this way and it wasn't working well and I had to do all these like re-strategize and stuff, which [00:35:00] I think is great that they're coming up out and still saying I went through this. 'cause it helps normalize it. But also is that I'm like, oh, okay.
[00:35:08] Amanda Pruden: But while you said you were going through this tough time, you were still preaching my business is doing amazing all of this stuff. So it's Then you're projecting something that's the opposite of what's going on. And so then now people can relate to you, but it's oh, but when you actually were going through it, and that's what I've been seeing a bit in the online spaces and people are like, yeah, businesses are struggling, but mine's doing amazing.
[00:35:33] Amanda Pruden: I want to celebrate that with you. And acknowledge that isn't always the most helpful. Thing to be saying online. Yes. Be like my business is doing good. I'm a coach. I have a coaching program. I have a group thing coming up or whatever. And conveniently, let me teach you how to have an amazing business like me.[00:36:00]
[00:36:00] Amanda Pruden: And there's so much that you can learn. And people make tremendous leaps in their businesses with absolutely coaching, with different support like that. So I don't wanna downplay that at all, for sure. And at the same time, people don't get a return on their investment with those coaching programs because they are just trying to replicate that coach's strategy.
[00:36:22] Amanda Pruden: Or I'm sorry, but like a lot of sales and marketing plays into personalities and charisma and people's ability to connect, communicate maybe they're magnetic and stuff. If I'm not this exact person with this exact thing, they probably will like, will hopefully teach me some things and I can make some good progress.
[00:36:46] Amanda Pruden: But if there's still a gap between where they are and where I am that'll never be met because of various things. Yeah. Then signing up for them when I'm struggling is not gonna be the quick fix that I think it's gonna be. [00:37:00]
[00:37:00] Teri Holland: Yes. And for every great coach. There's a coach that looks really great.
[00:37:06] Teri Holland: There's some coaches out there who charge really. Like premium rates for their packages because they're great at sales and marketing. Yeah. And that doesn't mean that they're great coach or the right coach for you. Yes. So it's important that we can discern that and sometimes it's really difficult to tell the difference because they're so good in their marketing and in their sales approach and very charismatic like you were saying.
[00:37:32] Teri Holland: And magnetic. Yeah. So it's easy to get drawn in. But they might not actually be able to coach you the way you need to be coached and if they're just teaching a, this is how I did it, this is how you can do it, model. That doesn't work for everybody. And I've seen that fall flat so many times where a coach has sold a program to be like, just follow the steps that I do.
[00:37:53] Teri Holland: But that might not be right for your business or it might not be right for your personality. It might not be a good fit for you.
[00:37:58] Amanda Pruden: Yeah, exactly. [00:38:00] And it's always, sometimes you have to look a little bit deeper at what's their experience, what's their history? Especially when you're. You're going through a bit of a test time in your business or overseeing it in our industry, like whether you're a coach or you're a virtual assistant or a graphic designer.
[00:38:14] Amanda Pruden: For in the online space, it's still the same industry. Yeah. And or we're in a type of an industry together. Is that, what's their experience that they bring to that, and how much can you learn from them? I'm gonna toot our own horns here, Teri. you have a very diverse background that led you to where you are now in terms of business and different jobs that you've had.
[00:38:41] Amanda Pruden: Same thing with me. Like I have, like I spent, I. A lot of time in corporate, but I was moving through different departments and different roles. Yeah. And then since here, I've been working behind the scenes with a lot of businesses and business owners, just like you work behind the scenes with a lot of businesses and business owners, so we can bring multiple strategies to the [00:39:00] table to help people.
[00:39:01] Amanda Pruden: And sometimes what happens is somebody's this is the strategy that worked for me, and I don't have a vast, varying experience to bring different things. So part of it's. Because we have to be more agile and adaptable to rebalance, then you need somebody that can be adaptable and agile and creatively think with you.
[00:39:25] Teri Holland: Yes, absolutely. And yeah, I think that is so important to look at. I'm always wary of any coach who has only made their money and their only business they've ever had. Is being a business coach. Yeah. If that's their first business, then what kind of experience are they drawing from? Or if it's what did they do before that?
[00:39:47] Teri Holland: And if it wasn't where they were in some sort of business, like a position within a corporate world or in a business where they were leading people or strategizing, problem solving, doing the things that are required to make a business [00:40:00] work, then. Is that a person that you should be listening to?
[00:40:04] Teri Holland: Yeah. Yeah. It's always yeah, it's such a good point. Look at what is their background, what's their experience level? What did they do before this? Yeah. It's I always see once in a while this meme goes around on social media. That's send me, I. A dollar and when I reach a million dollars, I will send you a book on how to make a million dollars online or something like that.
[00:40:25] Teri Holland: Yes. Yeah, exactly. And it's it's funny except that it's also really true in the business world Yeah. That a lot of coaches just make their money selling coaching. Selling business coaching. But maybe they might not be the best coach. Yeah. They might not have the experience to really draw from.
[00:40:43] Teri Holland: So use some caution with that, especially. In this recession economy being cautious with our spending. What you were talking about earlier is like really assessing where does my money go? And something I just remembered that I wanted to add to that is always look at your PayPal as well.
[00:40:59] Teri Holland: Like any pay Yes. [00:41:00] PayPal and your Apple subscriptions. 'cause I've been hit by those where I forget about them. And then, so now every month I go through my Apple subscriptions to be like, what comes out every month? Yeah, that's smart. What new ones have I picked up? Which ones am I not using anymore? And I assess it monthly.
[00:41:17] Teri Holland: 'cause I've been hit by those so many times where you sign up for that app because it seemed like it was gonna be a useful tool. Cool. Yeah. Six months later you're not touching it. So yeah, check those things out too.
[00:41:29] Amanda Pruden: Yeah, exactly. And to build off of that one that I forgot to mention earlier is that to see what you already have that you can leverage without adding on.
[00:41:38] Amanda Pruden: Yes. Yeah. So maybe when I was talking about maybe you have to cut back team member hours, I'm just trying to be really honest and transparent with people there. Sure. Because I would rather you have that conversation and roll back somebody's hours, then ghost them. I, that happened to me a couple times early on.
[00:41:53] Amanda Pruden: In the online space. Base, and I've seen it happen to other people where, again, just like how the client doesn't wanna go to their [00:42:00] coach or whatever and be like, I'm sorry. Like I'm going through a really tough time. I've also seen business owners going through tough times and not wanting to tell their team, and then all of a sudden they're just like, I literally have no money to give you.
[00:42:10] Amanda Pruden: And I'm like, okay. But if we started talking three months ago, maybe we could have cut back and adjusted. Yeah. But also I've seen sometimes is they're like, okay, I don't have as much work for this team member. When I was talking about what are those extra projects? They're like, oh team member, would you be willing to do this?
[00:42:27] Amanda Pruden: What things do you do for your other clients? Or have you done before that you like doing? Oh, so maybe I can start giving you different things. So instead of going and hiring somebody new, which is an investment, even if it's a consultant, 'cause you have to onboard them. Teach them about, yes your brand.
[00:42:40] Amanda Pruden: Teach them about your culture and all of these things. Figure out each other's communication styles. If you have somebody that you already have on your team that's working well. Maybe refill their plate without having to add hours, adding expense, but get more things taken care of that are coming up.
[00:42:57] Amanda Pruden: Maybe you have a platform Yeah. That you can get creative [00:43:00] with and you're like, oh, everybody's saying this is the shiny one to do for this thing, but actually I can get the same sort of functionality just a bit more creatively. With one that I'm doing right now. And then when things. I'm getting more money again, that's when I can maybe invest or maybe this works.
[00:43:17] Amanda Pruden: And so just be creative and see how you can leverage what you already have. And maybe that's even for marketing. Maybe this is when you're gonna start using your content bank more, right? For repurposing instead of always creating something new. It's just about. Being creative and being like, okay, what do I already have?
[00:43:37] Amanda Pruden: What am I already investing in? And if even if I keep that status quo, how can I leverage and build off of that without having to add expense?
[00:43:46] Teri Holland: Definitely. And I think something to add to that too is also look at some of the systems that you use that you really enjoy. And do they have an affiliate program?
[00:43:56] Teri Holland: Yeah. 'cause a lot of them do. And that could be a way to just make [00:44:00] a little extra money. As well into your business by just talking about the tools that you're using that work really well for you. And so sometimes, like I'm signed up in a few different affiliates that selective ones that I really enjoy that work really well for my business.
[00:44:16] Teri Holland: Yeah. And so then I make a little bit of extra money, which helps offset some of those costs of running those programs. That's exactly, so that's another way to bring some of those costs down is can you share that on your social media and maybe have a little money come back towards you?
[00:44:32] Amanda Pruden: Yeah, put it in your email marketing, put it on your stories, put it in your share link in your profiles and bios and stuff. And it is fun. Sometimes I'll notice that like a subscription is like $10 less or something. I'm like, oh, someone used a code or whatever. And it's a nice surprise. And so you're right, like there is be creative about different ways to bring money in as well.
[00:44:59] Teri Holland: [00:45:00] Yeah. Any last thoughts before we wrap up? Any last advice for us in navigating these recession times?
[00:45:09] Amanda Pruden: I'm probably just gonna be cheesy and say you got this like anything in life that's tricky. Like we all go through challenging times and we all go through like times where we're feeling like we're on cloud nine and we're like, Live in the dream.
[00:45:24] Amanda Pruden: Yeah, it's gonna be the same thing in business, so you will come out the other side of it. It's harder than for some people than it is for others, but you've got this put strategies in place, like I talked about with some of the things. The sooner you can put strategies in place, the sooner you can catch those expenses or do a rollback or the sooner that you can.
[00:45:48] Amanda Pruden: Think about oh, I'm gonna restructure my payment plans for my own clients or whatever. Be as proactive as possible. And like that's continuous improvement and that's how [00:46:00] we evolve and grow. And then you're gonna come out the other side one day and be like, wow, I was able to take all of these lessons and all of these strategies that I put into place when I was forced to, and now I'm gonna have a smarter business, a more streamlined business, a more savvy business.
[00:46:17] Amanda Pruden: And that's the thing that, yeah, I I had a client, I had some clients too that were also hit early Covid as well, and they had to quickly learn that some of their strategies weren't gonna survive and so the strategies that they made, they're, they now still will have in place because they were like, oh, that was the better way to do business.
[00:46:38] Amanda Pruden: Yeah. That was like the smarter, savvier way to protect myself, to protect my clients, and then they're still carrying them forward. So like I said, you got this. Just be proactive and do what you can. Nice.
[00:46:51] Teri Holland: Thank you so much. It's always such a pleasure to talk with you and I know you and I could talk for hours
[00:46:57] Amanda Pruden: thank you so much for having me again. This was a great [00:47:00] conversation and I'm glad that you were like, you're willing to bring it to your audience and share it.
[00:47:05] Teri Holland: Thank you.
[00:47:06] Teri Holland: If you want to learn more about Amanda and how she can help you to strategize and grow your business. Check the show notes for her links and her social media links as well. As always, if you enjoyed this episode, please leave a five-star review. That really goes a long way in helping us grow this audience.
[00:47:23] Teri Holland: And share it with a friend. Thank you for listening today. Come back next week where I'm interviewing Jodie Bourne, and she's going to talk all about how to find your niche. So if you're struggling with that, that is an episode you do not want to miss. Have a fantastic week bye for now